Interrogating Spaces
Interrogating Spaces
Walking Pedagogies: Soho, Saville Row and China Town with Dr Manrutt Wongkaew and Carole Morrison
Walking pedagogies
In this walk, Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew leads Carole Morrison and Gemma Riggs on an autobiographical walk from the now closed LCF building at John Princes St though Saville Row to Soho and China Town. We hear about Manrutt’s experiences as a tailor in Saville Row and how he embraces colour in his own fashion styling as a rebellion against conformity. Manrutt shares his stories of community in Soho that have informed his practice as a lecturer and his approach that allows students to bring their authentic selves to the learning environment.
Walking pedagogies is a series of audio dialogues exploring pedagogy through conversation and walking.
Recorded in specific locations, we hear conversations between two people as they walk and discuss a subject that is meaningful to them and their environment. We hear environmental sounds and chance encounters may come up. These are embraced in this process.
The approach is intentionally embodied. It allows two people to engage in a dialogue in motion, autonomous but being able to move, engage and respond to each other and the environment. The process aims to flatten any hierarchies inherent in a sit-down interview context and create a more informal, dynamic and relational framework. It also takes conversation about practice outside of the institution and allow for permeation of wider contexts and politics, particularly into the context of London, home of UAL. It allows for geography and the environment to become part of the conversation and to stimulate thoughts, memories and ideas.
Gemma Riggs
This is walking pedagogies. In this walk we amble with Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew and Carole Morrison. We meet in August 2023, at the London College of Fashion site on John Princes Street, just as it was in the process of closing and moving to Stratford East.
Carole Morrison
Oh my gosh, it's so strange, though, isn't it? So? This will probably be our last time in the building. Yes!
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
exactly. I went to the bathroom just now. It's like, Oh, am I the last person I feel everyone else has left the building
Carole Morrison
JPS, which is John Princes Street, main location for London College of Fashion, up until now, and the new locations on the east bank in East London. Yeah, we're sort of reflecting on what it means to be in and teach at London College of Fashion.
Gemma Riggs
Manrutt has curated a walking route from John Princes Street and will lead us through his journey to becoming a senior lecturer at London College of Fashion.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
We'll be walking around the building now. I feel like I'm a tour guide
Carole Morrison
What is, what is psychogeography? Then?
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
For me, I feel like for me, it's around, you know, Gemma, kind of wanted to acknowledge that are you here. So that feels like I think from our conversation around a sense of self and a sense of place. And we talked about journey. So today, I thought for me, it's about a sense of place of memories. So I plan to take both Carole and Gemma for a walk with me through through a place that has lots of events, learning, sometimes trauma, but it really shaped who I am today. And almost like someone talking about what sometimes we have to look back or go back to go forward. So we thought, you know, why don't we start here, because that's how we kind of met I think we met in this building, more or less maybe. And, and also, I want to show you throughout, I was so inspired by the book Bessel van der Kolk, called The Body Keeps the Score. I'm reading that at the moment. And as part of my training, and I will also put together some pictures that I have taken during the span of my journey before I get to this building, which had like JPS because JPS is also the first building I walk into, because when they started I had to come here to get my ID, the pass you know, like staff card issue. So this is the building that I walk in on the third of I think it was right around September 2018. So that's why I call - Okay, let's start here. And also I want to show what we look for go back to like, with Bessel van der Kolk about want to keep the score, he tossed around a subject of trauma for his study that say that it's all stored in the body in the nervous system, it's never leave us unless we do therapeutically like a body of work so much of body work, to to address to release or to revisit it in some shape or form because I can reflect on it like most I can talk I can tell my story about it but to, yeah, but you know to go back to like those feelings of how I'm experiencing these trauma and pain might not be possible. So that's why I kind of like okay, let's access my right brain today. Share with people that are here and then see what it takes from places memories location, photograph story feeling.
Gemma Riggs
We leave the London College of Fashion building and move on to John Princes Street.
Carole Morrison
So what I wanted to ask you is firstly to introduce yourself, your sort of full name because I remember meeting you and being told your name was Manny and thinking but that's not what it's written down. So, and then we had a conversation and I remember saying "I want to call you Manrutt, your proper name". So I want to know your proper name and your job, what you do at London College of Fashion, and I suppose the journey we're going to do today or embark on today is really around you know how I think psychogeography is set, has brought you to being who you are teaching and lecturing.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Yeah, so my name is Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew. And my nickname because when we were born, we were born, parent has to name the children's nickname. So my nickname is Man. And, but here when I moved to this country no one can pronounce like, Man, it was like Nan?, Nan? And then so "Manny" it's actually kind of my Thai drag name. So, but Manny is a man's, male's name in this country. So I go with Manny, which is actually like, I'm living my drag name everyday right now, professional academy career, but go with that. And you?
Carole Morrison
I'm Carole, Carole Morrison, I've been working at London College of Fashion for, I always forget, there's maybe about seven years in different roles. But I'm, I really love what I'm doing, I find it a real privilege to be able to explore the curriculum, to explore more connections with the curriculum and what students are really interested in as well. And we've had loads of conversations in the past about, what is this thing that we do this practice of pedagogy?
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Yeah, well, that's why I kind of like it makes me question around, almost like, go back to caulking and archetype that I could be a mother, I could be a teacher, I could be a lover, I could be a healer. Talking of that, also think about the intersectionality that might come into play. And there's something of value of identity, if it's not just a linear narrative. Even though the route that I show you today might have a certain path, but it doesn't mean that these happen in the same timeline, or different timelines, or this happens first, such as a linear narrative, but just a landmark that I would like to visit.
Gemma Riggs
Manrutt selected a number of images to accompany this walking journey.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
And now there'll be at the front. So I want to show you a picture that I put together for our walk and talk today, "twalk". This is the one that, so
Carole Morrison
When was this?
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
This must be in my first year here.
Carole Morrison
So, 2018?
Carole Morrison
Oh my gosh!
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Yes!
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
So
Carole Morrison
You're standing right in the front of the actual year though, aren't you?.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Because every year, I would take a photo in this spot, beginning of academic year, and at the end of academic year. So that's another picture that I want to show you. This is another one.
Carole Morrison
Why did you choose to do that? Why were you doing that?
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
I don't know, you know, but something around, there's something that I explore in my LGBTQ community, in the workshop that we run about, almost like I use each academic year or these landmark as a standing point about, okay, what happened to me for the last year, what's happened to me or what might be happening in the next coming academic year. So almost like at that time for the workshop, that the event that we run is happening every new year. So almost like a checkpoint, how has my life has been one year has passed. So I think that's why maybe I keep doing this at the right at the beginning and at the end of academic year. And I remember I had a picture taken when we were about to go into lockdown, or the next academic year was a social distancing classroom and it was like the wind was blow through here and like my garment kind of move with the wind, and I put like a "Wind of change" as my title, when I share on social media, but I always have my portraits taken at this point every year.
Gemma Riggs
It's just something really interesting about giving yourself that process of reflection, where you are in position to your teaching that bringing yourself into it.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Yes, absolutely. And when you share that also, like it reminds me of not just me as a cell, but also people. Because each point I interact with people, different people, that they give me a sense of belonging, a sense of acknowledgement and sense of acceptance. Because even before we start standing, I walk in and waiting for you in a spot and one of the estates team like kinda remember me and like kind of, oh, you wear colour, you aligned with the universe. And at first I thought we were going to be like talking about university, but he takes the term universe and it's like, oh, yes, because I talk a lot about queer universe, in my work and my research and practices. And then we started talking about where we from. And then when there's chat from Thailand. He says, Thailand is the only country in Asia that hasn't been colonised. Yes and I share my I share my story of what I'm what what happened in my therapy session around colonialism and I was I was moved by, he remember me, he remember what I wear they thought that I work here because he often see me and remember the colour you talk about resonate with the universe in his culture because his culture he said like the universe is colours, colourful. And we start talking more about each other backgrounds and yeah so that's why I kind of linked back to the subject of identity and the self that we connect to one another. And yeah, so we will explore more around the subject of self belonging community connection so we're gonna from now we can, we can stay off the main road but we're going to cut through to Savile Row I want you to bring you back. So almost like we walked with going back to time, but also thinking around you know, what do we leave behind what do I send of sell? What do I take with me to the new building in East Bank? And what do I need to what do I need to leave anything behind? Or do I need to collect anything I left behind with me to come with me to East Bank. We go through here.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
We're gonna come back to this.
Carole Morrison
... and Conde Nast. Worldwide magazines. So we're going down St. George Street now. And the site of Conde Nast. This is really interesting for me, because I used to be really obsessed by the planners. And I absolutely loved walking. So of course I had to jump at this opportunity and am also are really nosey and interested in people's lives. We are both a "twalking".
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
As we walk, I'm just thinking about, it gets through my head again about like, what kind of stories should I tell? Because I share a lot of these with my year one students in my better life lectures on empathy, storytelling, how to tell your story, the world listens. And that kind of like also because of time, and some people might know my story already. So what would I tell differently? But no, I've just like inquiry that happened in my head as we're approaching Savile Row
Carole Morrison
in a way, but what is the what is the memory that is in your head? Right now? What surfaced just as you started to cross the question for you around around Savile Row. Yeah. What does Savile Row mean to you? I'm curious, I want to know.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
So we're now walking into the Savile Row. And I think everything started for me here because I was I was writing up my PhD thesis at that time. And also my dad passed away as I was about to start with my PhD. And so my mum has to like kind of support me and have to work part time to sponsor myself and and then during that time of me writing up I think they my mum going through financial difficulties so I ended up having to work full time while writing up my PhD and it was a place I learned a lot in terms of suiting, in terms of fitting, tailoring, but also it's been a place of lots of struggle. And that's when I experienced toxic masculinity. I've been singled out lots of things are subtle but to deal with the stress I can see my life spiralling down. They went to a dark place and and that's when I started to to dress to find as a way to 'cause it like normally you know like working in fashion or working in like in a retail they say like okay you know do can dress to be part of the brand. And but then I became too much late for my control like you were this, this or this and I tried to find my unique voice within that. And then the manager said "No, the RTC director doesn't like bowtie", they think that is too old fashioned. So, it becomes like a standardise and for some people there's like you know, no big deal in terms of like you just wear uniform. But for me I just felt like that's a loss of thing of my voice and my identity, my individuality taken away. And. And yeah, so up to the point where there was I remember because quite often, people would take picture of me on the streets, and
Carole Morrison
I remember during lockdown and you were in The Guardian, weren't you? Yes. And it was it was, it was amazing because for me, it's interesting to hear you talk about why you started to use colour because it sounds like it's sort of as a sort of saving yourself survival type mechanism to choose colour above anything else. And what I remember about like flicking through or looking through The Guardian on I think I got both online and I went out and got a physical copy when I saw Manny in there. I remember thinking that it's just so it was so inspiring because there was Manny on, was it Ridley Road market?
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Yes.
Carole Morrison
And obviously in his full colour glory. And, yeah, it was just because it was quite, I think, quite empty streets, wasn't it? Quite empty streets, and it was lockdown. And there was Manny. And I remember us getting in touch and having a chat online with me occasionally and have tea online during lockdown just to connect. So isn't it really, but yeah,
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
so certainly, so that's why I was in quite sure, it wasn't colourful, then. I just found like, reasons because like, for example, like people will stop me on the street and take my photo. So this was like, quite recent, but outside, so opposite Volk house. And I remember that one time the someone said Hello to me, and I didn't really I remember him, but he will say, as a street photographer, and he said, I just want to come and say hello. And I realised, Oh, he didn't take my photo. Why? And I saw my reflection in the shop windows along here. And I kind of like, I look at myself, I feel like so who I became. So I was, I almost I don't care about what I wear anymore. I dress like this come to work and left and I just go through lives in motion. And it's like, what have I become? So I then decide to turn to fashion again, to like, what's what gives me inspiration. So I started to dress as a tribute to New York Fashion Week, London Fashion Week. And that's why we walk past Westwood because this picture changed everything for me.
Carole Morrison
So before when you were saying about what you had, what you were, asking yourself what you had become when you looked and saw yourself in reflection, what were you wearing then? Well, you know,
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
I remember I was wearing a white shirt and a black waistcoat.
Carole Morrison
okay
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Kind of yeah, all black and whites like very generic. It's a uniform. And..
Carole Morrison
And you had to realise that that's what you were doing. So it's been
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
I just feel like I was kind of trying to navigate okay for, under the control the micromanagement the toxic masculinity there's something that not wrong lately right with the with the management something like you know, to get a top rate commission they have to make 4000 pounds a day every day. So that's why I started like going to fashion and this is the day before I start working here.
Carole Morrison
Oh wow!
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
So I feel I still took some inspiration from the previous job so I still bring like
Carole Morrison
I'm sorry I love it though.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
I think my, I think the car just parking somewhere near Royal Academy.
Carole Morrison
I don't I don't believe you that this was an accident.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
No it's planned. So I saw I saw the car and I said I want to take picture of this and
Carole Morrison
It's such an amazing photo, I love the colour and everything in it. Is you hair pulled back there?
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
I think I was a fringe or some sort of a kind of put to the side it's like a royal blue and it's actually it was it was the interview for Savile Row
Carole Morrison
Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm still taking in the glory here.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
But then from that person I want to show you it's still me but this is like how I kind of became not became like I'm still serving, I dress lots of grooms in my time. And I have taken pictures of me, bridegrooms. So I was lucky that, you know, like, I met lots of incredible people, incredible clients, and I dressed, yeah, you know, like lots of weddings. I bring area of styling to present. And the background is just in design and performance at that time. So I then adapt into like how I dress people up, and I love dressing people, some part of me kind of felt sad, because I, I dress a lot of fathers and sons. And I felt like I never dressed my dad. So and you know, he passed away before the PhD, so I felt like, and he doesn't like shopping. So if you're like, I wish I could, you know, to like, kind of pin the suit for my dad or dress him up. And what I remember is that when he passed, I packed his suitcase, no, his wardrobe. And I took a knitted tie with me to London, because he I really, it was so, so it was so trendy to have like a knitted tie with a square, you know, rather than just a silk tie, that I remember as a child to see him wearing that, because he said that the silk tie get picked apart very quickly. So a knitted tie, it's more durable. I remember that what he says. And so that's really what pictures of the story that I want to show you.
Carole Morrison
Just quickly ask you also it's on my mind actually remember what was the theme of your PhD?
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
My PhD title is called "Terpsichore in Jimmy Choo : A visual mapping of the interrelationship between contemporary dance and high fashion economies." so it's about dance and fashion collaboration, right my project. So I think I was inspired by, there was a dance scholar who has a book called, something around sceptical in sneakers, that's talking around, I can't remember per se, don't quote me something around improvisation or streetdance. And, but I feel like I got inspired and refer to that. So talking about Terpsichore gods, goddess of dance, with contemporary dance, single valued hierarchies in Western Canada costs of dance values, but with fashion. So yes, so my writing in this place in on this road, and you know, like, compared to me with the with a car with a pole what's to me, wearing waistcoasts, yeah, three pieces and tie. So I still, you know, I really liked working with clients really keep me alive here. And one of them became, many of them became friends. So this is one of the wedding that they invited me to. So then he came for the first fitting. And that's when I met his fiancee and the dog, they want to try to dress the dog to be in similar colour all the time with the groom and the groomsmen. And so I did all the fitting because you know it had been a while now. And so I redo the fitting, so I met his fiancee and the dog. I really had a really lovely chat. And then then he came to pick the suit to do the final fitting. And it was around nearly like kind of my lunch break. And they kind of like how's everything, he was just like, shit. He said something around because he went to another wedding in Italy out up in the out. And it was like person was beautiful. So it was a pressure because it's like, you know, what do I need to do? My wedding is coming up. And and then he also disclosed that the groom's sister also came on to him. Big time. And I asked and you fancy her? He said, "Yes, everyone fancies her. She's like a model". And then I said, I"m kind of already late on my lunch break. So it's like, Okay, let's go for lunch. And we'll come back to the fitting. And so I kind of like talk, to have a chat to him about it, and talk to him about you know, understanding of their their route anxiety of you know, attending a friend's wedding to compare to his own, whether am I ready to commit to this person? And so, I feel like this is a challenge of the universe, that universe is given to you right now. Like how lucky that this happened before the wedding. Because you can do call off the wedding as well. Yeah, so it kind of like so what what do you want? And he said, I love my fiance to bits. Because I know he has a fiancee because I met her and the dog. So like I'm so I'm really glad to hear that. Because like, it's a good thing is it happen now, it's not if it happened along the line, it will be more difficult. So that's why I was really emotional when I kind of saw them walking down the aisle because I know what he went through. And now talking about, hold on, I just give like a counselling advice while addressing him up, but we're on lunch break. So maybe that's kind of inspired me to talk about connection. Talking about even like my relationship with the student we talk about therapeutic, it's not so much about transactional, it's trans-relational it's the relationship that is healed, that is learning that is educate, informative, I
Carole Morrison
I think what's really nice about that is what you are sort of describing there with like, your friend is like it's and when you talk about students I know is this about you, it's like you, you often sort of just pause, you do press pause, you, somebody will share something and you will slow everything down so that we can focus on that moment, that was really important for that person that they might not even realise was important. And then you create a space for people to explore that. And you do that with students as well. Remember, when you were talking about the work you did with them during lockdown, where you got them to find photographs and connect to their families and create home that, you know, people can skim over those things. You know, I know it was different during lockdown, we were more heightened. But you know, that story that you just talked about with your friend, being anxious, we kind of could, you know, we're kind of really ready to dismiss those kinds of things and just brush them away with all you know, it's just it's just like, nerves isn't it? It's just, you know, anxiety and the worry about it is dismissive. But what you do, I think is slow everything down and make those kinds of moments really important and valuable for people and help them see that. And I think I see that as part of your teaching and learning practice to see that as how you operate all the time.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
What you're sharing here makes me think around something that comes to my mind around the body. Now the sensation is around being human, being human with other people. Because this, these clients of mine, just like feel like in crisis, could be identity crisis could be a lot of anxiety or stress. But just about you know, obviously when student can be in high stress and anxiety of a certain situation, and how can we being humans, or we empathise and respond to not to fix a problem or acknowledge to solve the problem, but just acknowledge and a space to listen and to feel it within.
Carole Morrison
It's interesting, isn't it? Because especially within higher education, we focus so much on the rational, don't we? We don't, we don't value the emotional and, and I suppose in your practice, if you don't acknowledge the emotional, it's incredibly dangerous. And we already know now within higher education with students and the whole mental health issues that we're seeing sort of mushroom, you know, may have always been there, but we talked about it more, we're kind of seeing that if we don't address the emotional alongside the rational within higher education, we're not doing our students a proper service. Oh, well, I think it's and it's, I'm sort of thinking about it through likely sort of colonial structures as well as just talking about one thing and separating stuff out, you know, rather than seeing ourselves as a whole you always talk about us like that we are a whole we our mind and body, our emotions and our thoughts, you know, and how do we how do we sort of encourage more of that, you know, that kind of holistic approach to learning then we acknowledge everything about students everything about them that they come with?
Carole Morrison
It's a big ask, isn't it?
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
this is why I think one of the walk is about you know, we all have a history we all have a journey before we get to the institution. So maybe let's trace that back to our own journey and learn to relate to other people journey and hear more about what other people experience
Gemma Riggs
so where are we now
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
we are walking from Savile Row on to Burlington gardens Royal Academy
Carole Morrison
we're outside the Royal Academy.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
So maybe while we are in the shade, I just want to show you the reason why brought here because you know, the porch, the porch and the three tone row moments. Yeah, well taken there in front of the Yeah, in front of the back of the Royal Academy. And also, I remember that is the same year that I came to the summer exhibition. And I saw this quote on the wall. And it's by Leonard Matlovich, who was kind of seen as the father of LGBTQ movements. And it was a quote on the walls that when there wasn't really three, they gave me a model of killing two men and a discharge for loving one. So I was really moved by that and I create a series of like a fashion editorial work that respond to you know, how, like how my experience of being muted in a way, you know, kind of around like they call it the uniform man. But talking about my challenges or my struggles and how I bring a sense of self into the challenge. The the conformity, meanwhile, came up to overcome our conversations around conformity and individuality. And then about a sense of self, the authentic self, and singularity and the solar community. And so that's why I brought I brought you here to talk about the summer exhibition quote, that lead to my artwork. And this is the Blue Bear talking. And at that time, he was like 50 years of celebrating the human legislation here in the UK. And it's like a critique towards certain critiques who are trans and in military. And that's why I brought you here.
Carole Morrison
Yes, very powerful statement actually, reminds me of I think Alice Walker talks about how, like, African American writer talks about how we get more angry about seeing two men holding hands than we do about men holding guns. And it kind of links to that military is just popped into my head.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Okay, yeah. And we're, we're going to walk to Soho now. Yes. So I bring you here because it's something around, you know, because at that time, Alexander McQueen exhibition at the V&A was on and, it was the point of my departure to the street. Where, because you know like, McQueen was a cutter, right, apprentice in the street and we're struggling with, with the nature of the not that the nature of work, but about getting the the culture of the work and who he is. And when I look around, also that, you know, female cutter that time also struggle to get recognition and how many female cutter out there or any queer cutter out there on the street. So I start to question that and so irony that you know, because they talk about bespokes aesthetics, bespoke is supposed to be unique and individual, but then it's the same template as a result. So that's why I turned to Kinky Boots and challenging about you know, what is it to be a man and because I wear this outfit, and these colours, it doesn't mean much less of a man than who they are. So that's what I kind of teach my students around that personal narrative, to remember who we are. We are gonna cross and heading through SOHO.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
And even like we leaving Savile Row now I just felt like once it in me that I felt apologetic of even like, you know, taking a picture of the sign. And I was scared that some of my colleagues, who might, my ex colleague who might be still there might saw me doing that. And so like I am asking myself, so what's wrong with that? So I think this would come back to something around reclaiming of identity or the frightened of the fear of of of the act of reclaiming that kind of I sense that in my body because you know, I was resisting to go down the street
Carole Morrison
maybe that was a little too soon and we didn't
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
play long in the in that in that corner either.
Carole Morrison
But it was about your hesitation was about seeing colleagues from the previous Manrutt that say previous Manrutt and having to engage with them. Yeah.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
I wonder around like, because the word guilt and shame came to me. Yeah. It's, it's that survivor's guilt. Yeah. Yeah. Or, or is it something that I'm doing well for myself now, we're doing better than before. I'm not regretting having my chapter there. But I just wonder if there's something that I felt apologetic about it, or should I shouldn't be, I shouldn't claim that. I don't know. There are lots of I don't know, I couldn't quite explain.
Carole Morrison
In many ways, you're very you, you're who you are now, because you've clung on to becoming who you wanted to be, rather than sort of succumbing to what they wanted you to be. And that's a really big deal, isn't it? I mean, that brings us back to thinking about our students as well isn't that we're trying to draw out who they are and what they want to be and supporting them. And that's really tough, isn't it? It's really hard for them to do that in a world which is so about conformity and agreement. I mean, yeah, it's so complicated, isn't it, but being able to see examples of people like you who are teaching them, and being sort of clear about the sort of path you've taken, that it's not your, it's about being yourself and being an individual. And it's not easy, isn't it?
Carole Morrison
Absolutely, and I think when I hear you it make me think of one of my group therapists who kind of look up to and he's also my teacher, he was talking about this talk on, it takes a queer, it takes a queer village. It takes a queer village, definitely able to talk, and, and he share a poem that he wrote, as a young therapist. It has three lines, you talk about, who I once was, who I am now, and who I will become. So it's almost like kind of a story you share and kind of make me understand or realise that you're not just talking about who I once was, by walking onto these memories of the location that and, and also, like, you know, kind of to experience of who I am now walking, you know, the same routes or visiting the past. Because that's something about trauma, isn't it? Like, how can we revisit the painful path and trauma to know that that trauma is already finished? And I'm not that person anymore, but some part of me like, oh, let's get out of here.
Speaker 1
You wouldn't be human not to have that kind of reaction, like a bit of a visceral reaction to a place that had holds trauma for you. It would mean that you'd have you it'd be weird not to have some kind of reaction. Even like a memory.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Yeah, yeah, So we're about to walk. We're on Brewer Street now.
Carole Morrison
Brewer street is completely different, the Brewer Street that I, we, used to run around. I know this isn't about me, but, Jesus, these buildings.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
It's all changed, gentrification. And what I want to bring because this is the Brewer Street car park, where I think one of the season London Fashion Week was here, in the carpark. Yes, it was in the car park because you know, many years it was in Somerset House right? Okay. So and then it moved to Brewer street, I think one or two seasons, but the reason I wanted to maybe we could cross the road because I continue to being noticed by street photographers again. And that's there's some pictures that taken literally there and if that that comic shop is no longer there now, but I remembered that this photographer I saw him during fashion week every season while I used to like, you know go there, and he captured my picture.
Carole Morrison
It's such a crazy picture. I love your smile.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
So yeah, I was wearing Portsmouth kind of psychedelic prints. I got Dr. Marten's tattoo print shoes I got McCue gold gilet. And I was wearing Portsmouth purple bomber jacket, the baggage my cue was gold Lamay and then it's Westwoods pink molten hats. So I feel like you know, like kind of being seen again by being me because I wasn't sure whether they understood that or not. And therefore, that's why I want to bring you to Conde Nast. Because that happened. So I went, you know, like, inspired by McQueen. So I, I resigned from Savile Row without anything lined up, I feel like, I need to get out of this, you know, for the sake of my mental health, my well being. I changed myself, I changed my attitude towards work. But then nothing changed. So I feel like, okay, I need to get out.
Carole Morrison
It's not you, it's the environment.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Yes. So I feel like so you know, and I share with my students, the last quote, because I was in tears watching his exhibition. And the last quote, before we exit, there's a quote on the wall, I remember it's a white tile and is a last collection plan to Atlantis was the full collection that he completed before he passed. And the quote said, but I think something around, I'm take, I'm going to take you on a journey you never dreamed was possible. Come back, he said, There's no way back for me now, I'm going to take you through the journey you never dreamed was possible. And I was really moved, because I went through a really difficult time. And I'd reach reach out for help. And so reaching and using fashion as a way to find my voice again. So I felt that I feel sorry for him that he doesn't have much support, or in the term of calcium therapeutic world, and how fashion industry that time, like, you know, like quite can be abusive. So I feel like I've been given a second chance or third or fourth or to, to do something differently. And I want to take his legacy in the way that I'm not comparing myself to him to say that I'm going to make fashion artwork or using my talent or my creativity to to continue to like teach like, people will see the work through the journey, that wasn't even be possible. So I tell that that through my visual artwork and editorial work. And so I quit my job. So we're heading into Soho. And then maybe I'll show one picture from a few pictures on the Old Compton Street and then we go to Chinatown, and then we stop. So we are now on Old Compton Street.
Carole Morrison
Yes, we are.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
So maybe we'll find one corner. So that I can show some pictures. And so no, come back to what we talked about, it takes a queer village take, it takes a village. Because I couldn't this on my own but it's about the reassurance of within people, I call them the angel, the universe and somebody to talk to me and share their life story with me. And that's why I want to show this picture. Because I stopped to have a chat with her.
Carole Morrison
So what's going on?
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
So I kind of I'm not sure the pronouns, but she's a trans woman with her dog. And she was wearing a really avant garde almost like breakfast and Tiffany inspired outfit but all in black. And she disclosed that she also used to be a student at one of the fashion institution. And because of transsexuality, she's been bullied by classmates and teachers and loss of scholarship. And she shared her journey with me when we stop and sit there, everyone not everyone, like people would just like stop and take picture of us together.
Carole Morrison
Because it looks like it shoots doesn't it. That looks constructed you're saying is accidental.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
It was on the same way when I quit my job with anything lined up because so many people share their story with me. That was really powerful and moving and
Carole Morrison
amazing pitch you're gonna send I love I love the fact that you're all including the dog looking
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
at the same fascinating, fascinating, fascinator and same design as
Gemma Riggs
you know, people feel like they want to share their story with you and like your how your dress is life isn't it is it's like a representation of life and how that opens people up and your students as well and like it invites it gives permission and it invites a whole other level of being.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
I would say what I wear represent light, and of course
Carole Morrison
As an illumination as an illumination
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
brightness, hope, positivity. Because it became my, you know, without realising what I wore or has become my personal therapy. And it's about finding myself again, because lots of people in fashion what they find some people say, Oh man, this person love colour you should meet them. And I have nothing in common. And for them, it's just a colour to sugar coat, the bitterness, the sourness, the scars inside, nothing wrong with that. But for me, it's almost like an extension of self. And sometimes I've been judged people think this is an armour, or this is some performance performativity there might be some elements of that, but they're also there's some authenticity in it, that sometimes I feel hurt when people kind of, I feel judged when people say those things, because
Carole Morrison
What is interesting to me, is that the emphasis is on the living, isn't it and you call your I think your signature under your
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
life in full colours
Carole Morrison
is living your life in full colours. And I think that's the, that's the difference, isn't it? You're, it's about the living with and to colour and it's not just the superficial nature of that kind of green of the season. You know, it's, it's much deeper than the.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
this, this was the photos and editorial shoots that called Soho Wonderland, and it shot in Soho as sunset going to evening, and the photographer is Yoshitaka Kono, and he has become a long standing kind of collaborators. And he really worked really well with lights and neon. So I kind of aim to do these shoot, to shoot his strength. If not, it wasn't my concept. But I want to integrate part of Soho being a Soho girl, kind of red light district something very kind of Japanese s Karatu inspired when she kind of lost its significance here with gentrification and the loss of story behind it, but just once you show the colours, the shoe and the light. And also the to contrast this with the Uniformat that I show you in the video. That's why I come back to about life in full colours. Because behind the brightness there also darkness in and this is about channelling and understand and embracing both. That's why I said you know, if I cannot just was with cold because the California syndrome, I cannot be 24/7 happy. Or if anyone in the world start to dress like me that's not attainable, sustainable either. So it is about find a balance to understand the light and the shadows. And that's why I put in life in full colours, because it's not just only one shade. There are many side of us that needs to be acknowledged and embrace and celebrate. And, and that's why we stopped here, which is a St. Anne's Church.
Carole Morrison
So it's not random that we did not It's
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
not random. And it's an answers on themes because we on the streets because the group that I'm part of, like for gay, queer, and by men, the journey started when we've got about to go to Chinatown now. But that group kind of close after a few years I've been part of, but the group here run by Simon marks just got a change of scene, it just comes to a close but I they have been using many buildings particular the bottom of the 50/16 street and, and also moved to a different venue and now I have a dissent and church. And that I think it's a church of do a lot for queer community by being here in Soho. And I think one of I don't know, I can't remember the name of the person in a row. He also gave a talk in the place I'm going to show you in Chinatown, but that's why I stopped here because I feel like I feel safe and secure here and rather than be on the runway East
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
So maybe let's do so one more round it goes to Chinatown. Okay, we're going to just go to the end of the road.
Speaker 1
So we're now back on our constant street turn Street and walking along the way I noticed this beautiful gorgeous days burning sun as well just
Carole Morrison
really, yesterday was November really well the day before was
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
the day before yesterday. It was nice to really come back to like you know how we kind of how I revisit the place as a different person and how that is feel. Yeah, Remember
Carole Morrison
when I used to come here, when I used to come here wasn't it wasn't as sort of touristy or even as you gentrified. That means if a word I was looking for
Carole Morrison
these two institutions though aren't them as a maze on Berto and the Coach and Horses are institutions as is the the Is this the pizza place isn't it? These these three stand out as kind of like institutions around here and we're going down is trying to turn down first street
Carole Morrison
oh we can stop here. Okay cool.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
So we are outside Kuba and COO Clark on the love Street in Chinatown. And I think what I want to stop here because of this place also have a significance in my journey. Because on the basement, which is cool club that gave space to a forum that I started to share. It's an open mic event. And that's why we'll be talking about your takes a queer village because it's a queer kind of gay queer environment kind of space. And there will be monthly events. And each month we have a theme. And, and the organiser might have certain guest speakers who speak to that theme. That's why I know we're talking about sales and church because that's the theme on that month was on faith. And he would invite lots of people because lots of religions, kind of like leaders who make contributions to a community talking about different experience around fate. And so the theme might change into relationships, friendship, beginning and so on. And that's why I got some pictures to share as well. And how I began to share my story here. Let's say that even my son 630 to 830, something like that Not long, but you know, because before the clubs open, and so I start to share my what's going on with me that time and money in response to the theme. And I wasn't sure whether like what to share, or sometimes I prepare what I share, then I realised that if I prepare it too much, people don't really connect with me. But if I talk from what's going on for me at that moment, like if I get rid of my script, I can hear we can hit the pin drops in the room. So so that's how I start to to make my community you can see some of the recipe here great Yes, even storytelling kind of just a, it's about sharing personal experience. And it's open to everyone and to share they will set up a time, sometimes like four minutes. And he said that he always got this Princess Diana Bell, when it's near four minutes, you're gonna ring the bell to give like a like a warning. And he said, if I keep doing that three times, and you're not stopping, I'm gonna blast Kylie really loud. That's the rules. And so that's how I started my journey really. So you know, I have the experience, not that I'm experienced. I was experiencing certain challenging trauma, and also friendship, community and strength. And I find my language and my village here. But also to come back to conclude around we talked about the body keepers school. And now we're revisiting why revisit the same row, the same streets, almost similar places or change the places to acknowledge a change of self or not changing chance of self or how I kind of want to run away or censor or edit also like to have to have, like a witness to have to have a group of people to walk with me to revisit these places. And what emotions of feeling so narrative that it brings so, so yeah, leave it as open and come back around a sense of self authenticity, a journey to an evolution of self, a journey of who I once was, who I am now and who I will become, as we are going to inspect for tender. I
Carole Morrison
think the word is evolving, evolving. You know, I think that's what life is about evolving. Yes, thanks for sharing that with us.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
Thanks for witnessing and recording. And for the invitation.
Carole Morrison
I'm excited about the next evolution.
Gemma Riggs
I just thinking about Yeah, just bringing it back to, you know, just the students and you as a teacher, and it's an
Carole Morrison
important point, because the word evolving is probably really appropriate for education, isn't it in the sense that when you come into your, when you come to your learning, you're coming as in a particular state, and we as educators should be facilitating, and helping students evolve and become that whole kind of liminality stuff that we talk about a lot. And so I do think it's, it's important to think about the word evolving, it's an active isn't it, and that's where we're actually active in having helping students become and continue to be become and be confident in that. I think it's a really important role, actually. And really important in the sense that we should acknowledge how important that is to be part of that, you know, be part of helping some somebody become who they who they want to be and who they actually are.
Gemma Riggs
So what you're communicating so strongly is that it isn't evolution, and it's not about being fixed, and how we're so tempted to convey ourselves as something fixed and finished and accomplished and, and you're just giving such a kind of amazing light through your personal narratives, just that that's not the case. It's,
Carole Morrison
it's not linear, it's not fixed. It's, it's possible to be circular. It's about evolving and progressing. And these are like, not, these are anticolonial paradigms and structures, their anti colonial ideas, as well, and ways of being that have always existed. It's just brilliant that, you know, men were showing us that this is exactly what should be happening. And we can all be and do what we want to and push back against, you know, the sorts of pressures that you've described in your personal and professional life, as being structures that are not fixed, we can change them and don't have to accept them.
Dr. Manrutt Wongkaew
We're talking back about doing a holistic approach. Because that's something that highlights and you bring to the healing pedagogy is kind of like part of my practice and independent development. That's why it brings me to the text that I was mentioned earlier. And I take a screenshot of one student submission that they, this this person, went to my lecture or watch the recording of my lecture and want to reflect on on that aspect of empathy, storytelling, personal narrative. And the students said, like when watching Manny's lecture on empathy and storytelling, I was inspired by his openness and authenticity. To be unapologetically yourself. He spoke about how to find your voice. And by doing this, you find people with a similar voice to you. And then I will move to the the the ending paragraphs. Only recently have I started coming to terms with my mental health, and start conversations surrounding the subject. I think the significant change of moving away from home to a new city, meeting new people and obtaining new experiences triggered everything I had been suppressing, to rise to the surface. These past few months have been very hard, but I'm feeling more inspired than ever, creatively to channel these emotions into my work. Manny says you have reached in and also reach out to others. I also want to utilise the creative freedom I have on my cause, to use my work to heal in some way and use fashion as my therapy. I think that would be Good point for me to conclude, in a way that of course, education and fashion can mean to lots of things to lots of people. And for me, fashion has become part of my escapism part of the way to find my voice and find my community. So that's why I see China as a healing power. So that's why I embarking on developing my training in integrative psychotherapy to bring into the fashion on the critic education that bring a sense of self a sense of community authenticity into into what we teach, or teach with the petition. And, and because sometimes, children come here to heal, or sometimes they heal by doing or to forgetting. So that's why I want to promote a developing this going forward.
Carole Morrison
Is a thank you so much, Manny, for being so open and generous. It's such a privilege