Interrogating Spaces

Creative Shift Takeover: Women+ of Colour in Leadership (full version)

October 05, 2022 UAL Teaching, Learning and Employability Exchange Season 2 Episode 9
Creative Shift Takeover: Women+ of Colour in Leadership (full version)
Interrogating Spaces
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Interrogating Spaces
Creative Shift Takeover: Women+ of Colour in Leadership (full version)
Oct 05, 2022 Season 2 Episode 9
UAL Teaching, Learning and Employability Exchange

In this podcast we hear from three students about their experience of taking part in Creative Shift’s Women+ of Colour in Leadership (W+CinL) live brief project (2022).

W+CinL is a 10-week project designed to inspire and empower UAL students who identify as female. Giving 15 students an opportunity to develop different aspects of leadership through leadership coaching delivered by Jannett Morgan, Director of JM Learning & Skills, while applying their learnings to an industry live brief. This year we worked with PR agency, Hope&Glory and their client LinkedIn, students designed and presented a PR campaign representing barriers women face in the workplace.

For more about the Women+ in Leadership programme see our webpage here.

Credits / references

Podcast host

Debra Chosen is a highly-experienced communications expert; who has worked across Social Media & Marketing for 8 years including a range of sectors such as fashion and beauty, property and also charity. Carefully crafting brand messages from strategy through to content creation, Debra’s career has orbited around telling stories that engage and provoke human connection. She is currently working as Global Content Manager for Dove at Unilever and hosts Trusting The Process, the podcast that celebrates black women doing big things.


Davinia Clarke – BA Hons Illustration and Visual Media student
Jade Milton-Baptiste – BA Hons Design Management graduate
Pearl Gerald – BA Hons Graphic and Media Design student

Sound Engineering and Production: Hannah Kemp-Welch 

Show Notes Transcript

In this podcast we hear from three students about their experience of taking part in Creative Shift’s Women+ of Colour in Leadership (W+CinL) live brief project (2022).

W+CinL is a 10-week project designed to inspire and empower UAL students who identify as female. Giving 15 students an opportunity to develop different aspects of leadership through leadership coaching delivered by Jannett Morgan, Director of JM Learning & Skills, while applying their learnings to an industry live brief. This year we worked with PR agency, Hope&Glory and their client LinkedIn, students designed and presented a PR campaign representing barriers women face in the workplace.

For more about the Women+ in Leadership programme see our webpage here.

Credits / references

Podcast host

Debra Chosen is a highly-experienced communications expert; who has worked across Social Media & Marketing for 8 years including a range of sectors such as fashion and beauty, property and also charity. Carefully crafting brand messages from strategy through to content creation, Debra’s career has orbited around telling stories that engage and provoke human connection. She is currently working as Global Content Manager for Dove at Unilever and hosts Trusting The Process, the podcast that celebrates black women doing big things.


Davinia Clarke – BA Hons Illustration and Visual Media student
Jade Milton-Baptiste – BA Hons Design Management graduate
Pearl Gerald – BA Hons Graphic and Media Design student

Sound Engineering and Production: Hannah Kemp-Welch 

Debra Chosen  00:06

Welcome to the UAL Creative Shift podcast, a space where we tell the empowering stories of our UALstudents and go behind the scenes into the work that we do. I'm your host Deborah Chosen. UAL's Creative Shift develops and delivers programs and opportunities to support and empower ual students who are underrepresented in the creative industries. In this podcast, we're going to be talking to students who took part in the woman plus of colour in leadership program, a 10 week creative shift project for students of color to identify as female or non binary. During this program, 15 students are selected and given weekly leadership coaching to develop their leadership attributes, which they get to apply to an industry live brief. The women plus of color Leadership Program was coordinated by Charline and Sat from Creative Shift weekly sessions were facilitated by leadership coach Janet Morgan. Today, I'll be talking to the students about their experience on the program and how it was working with this year's live free partners, PR company Hope&Glory and their clients, LinkedIn. This year, I got a glimpse of the women plus of color in leadership program when I had the privilege of taking part as a guest in a networking session. So today, I'm really excited to find out about the journey that the students went on over to our lovely students.


Davinia  01:26

So hi, I'm Davinia and I'm studying illustration and visual media at University of the Arts, London, and I'm currently in my third year, which is a placement Year. 


Pearl  01:36

Hi, guys. I'm Pearl. I'm also in my third year studying graphic and Media Design. Also my placement year UAL, London College of Communication.


Jade  01:44

Okay, so my name is Jade. And I'm currently studying design management. I'm actually just graduated. So I'm in my last final year.


Debra Chosen  01:52

Amazing, congratulations. Okay, so we're gonna dive into today's conversation, of course, we're going to be talking all about the live brief project, which you all took part in. So I'm going to take us on a little bit of a journey, we're kind of going to walk through from the very beginning through to where we are today. So just to start things off, let's kind of place yourself back in the beginning. So it's the day where you've kind of seen you seen the program, and it's your first time kind of understanding what it's about. Let's talk about first impressions. Okay, what were your initial thoughts? When you first read about the program? Did you have any fears or any concerns?


Davinia  02:24

So when I first saw it, it was a bit scary, I feel a bit daunting because I do illustration. So I think the requirements in that thought maybe I wouldn't be able to do it. So when I was looking, I kind of put it off. But then I applied like at midnight. I went to bed, but it was still like playing on my mind that I didn't apply for it. I thought let me just go for it. Because what's the worst that can happen? And then I just did it?


Debra Chosen  02:52

Absolutely. I'm glad you did. And over to Pearl, what are your initial thoughts when coming across the program,


Pearl  03:00

I was really excited. I was kind of in a break in between my internships and I had some time I was looking for something to do. And when I saw it, yeah, I was just really excited to do it. Because like, as a woman of color, there isn't always like programs you can take part into when I saw that it was a great chance to like, I guess to get collaborate with other women of color and just like learn a lot. So I was like, yeah, why not?


Debra Chosen  03:21

Definitely enjoyed what was what was your experience?


Jade  03:23

I think overall, I think because I had been Creative Shift had been mentioned to me, being one of two persons of color in my whole class, and feeling like I needed some kind of support or just needed to be heard. I had it mentioned to me, so I looked into it originally. And then I think I saw when I saw it. Because I saw it like in my last year it was it's literally the first thing that I've seen this whole journey, like my studying journey, where I could like apply to like a kind of club or association that can be part of that kind of reflects who I am in that sense. And I was like, oh, you know what, why not just go for it. It's about leadership. Leadership is something that we study on our course as design managers. So yeah, I I just saw it and thought why not exactly. Like the Davinia. As I say, yeah, just just apply. Yeah, that's it.


Debra Chosen  04:17

Absolutely. What's interesting, there's quite a few of you mentioned, of course, being women of color, right. And that's ultimately what unites us here today. And I'm wondering, taking part in this program. What kind of impact did it have being that this program was specifically for women in color? And what kind of impact did that have for you on the journey and why was that important to you?


Jade  04:39

I would say it was very important because what I didn't have much of was representation. I feel like in this campus in itself, or LCC, I should say, there's very minimal. The launch of the graduation show was the first time I saw as many people of color than I have in my whole three years in this campus. So I think it's very important, especially for women, getting into the creative industries to have things to be given resources and have, you know, peers that can help them on their journey and give them all the tools that's necessary to enter into that industry, as well. I think through myself being a lot older and having the experiences that I have outside of university, I see how important it is. And it's not done enough. And it needs to be done. So I think it's a really good thing.


Davinia  05:32

Yeah, definitely. Because even again, on my course, there's not many black people, especially black women, as well. So I think being also we don't do many collaborations as much on my course. So that's another reason why I wanted to join us to like, learn about working with other people, because I'm so used to working by myself. But also Yeah, it was great to like work alongside other women, and also people that look like me. And we have like similar experiences that we can talk about and not feel kind of uncomfortable. When you're in like certain spaces, you feel like you have to kind of dim your light or dim parts of yourself that you don't want to be perceived in a certain way. So I think that was another reason I guess, like I joined the program.


Pearl  06:12

Yeah, I'd like to echo a lot of what has been said. But yeah, it was, again, really nice to like to collaborate and kind of like, have a safe space where everyone looks like you. And then you can like be more open with like to kind of the conversations that you have, because sometimes we just with certain people, you kind of have to be careful what you're saying. And they might take offense to it and stuff like that,


Debra Chosen  06:31

you're able to be yourself here. Yeah. And that's really important. And I love that you mentioned representation, and it'd be in a safe space as well. That's so key. Because what we've hopefully been able to create from this brief project is kind of a community or a small community where it's so important, you're able to show up as yourself, and still learn in that kind of environment. So really, really glad to hear that. Yeah, that was your experience. All right. So you're on to the program. And you've you've received that that acceptance. So at this point, how did you feel? And what were your expectations? Hopefully not any regrets? Hopefully not. Oh, God, can I leave? What were your expectations? And how did you feel at this point


Davinia  07:08

I kind of went in with an open mind. But I do remember telling my mum or my sister that I got accepted into it. Because like, really, I'm happy that I did it. But yeah, I came in with an open mind because I was still unsure, like what was expected of me and what we will be doing. So I just came in like, Okay, this is a new experience for me and just kind of try your best and put all your effort in when you go through the program.


Debra Chosen  07:30

One of the interesting things about this program is it's been designed in such a way that you have different mentors of sorts, or that you can turn to so you know, of course, you weren't a pupil at Janet Morgan, coach. And of course, Sat and Charline of Creative Shift. So how valuable Would would you say looking back having these different influences? How valuable was it to have them on board? And and in what ways did you lean on these different individuals?


Pearl  07:53

It was great, because you've got you've got a nice variety of loads of different things. I personally, I think I lean more towards the leadership side, because I mean, like I've been doing UAL Cheer for around three years. And I was thinking about applying for president but I've always been on the more like reserved side. So when I saw this opportunity to like in enhance my leadership skills, yeah I really wanted to like capitalize on that. And well yeah just doing this program gave me the confidence within myself to want to apply. And I did apply. So, and I'm actually the new president. So it was beneficial.


Davinia  08:27

Yeah, I think it was great, because I'm just like kind of reflecting back on. Like, when I'm on my course, like, obviously we have our tutors. But we don't really kind of get that one on one support sometimes then because there's like loads of people on my course, sometimes you can kind of fly under the radar. So I think also because it was like 15 people on there, you really do really do get noticed. And like they noticed like each of your qualities as well, what's different about you, and also, I guess what you need to improve on because we did this thing the UAL like wheel and it's about all your different abilities. And we just had to like scale, what we felt the most confident in. So yeah, that was really helpful. And I feel like Janet is like the auntie that everyone just wants in their life because you stay encouraging, and she's so energetic and she just like really believes in you and the same of like Sat and Charline. Like they just really believe in you and they encourage you. And I think yeah, that's really important, especially in the creative field, when sometimes it is kind of looked down upon or sometimes it's not taken as seriously, you really need that encouragement to just keep on doing it. 


Debra Chosen  09:32

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about during the project. Okay, so at this point we started and, of course, as we know, you have the privilege of working with industry partners, such as Hope&Glory and LinkedIn, I mean, the LinkedIn on this live brief. What was that experience like? I guess, working you know, working with Hope&Glory and also for LinkedIn as the client.


Davinia  09:55

I think for me, it was like a new experience because I've never really worked in a professional setting like that in, I guess in the company. So I was a little bit nervous at first, but I think they made it like a nice safe space that it didn't feel too. Like serious and even like the way the office was laid out, like they had, like when you get in the bathroom, they had like body spray, like period pads, like things like that. So it made you feel like at ease. And so yeah, we did like activities together to like warm us up. But in general, I think it was like a great way to see like the workplace because I haven't really had much experience within the workplace. So it was nice to see that there's people that are making effort to create, you know, spaces for women of color, especially.


Pearl  10:43

Yeah, it was great. And they really, really down to earth as Davinia we're saying. And then we also got like mentors so we they gave us someone that as we were going through the process, we could like go to for advice. Or if we were unsure if like LinkedIn would like go with the idea, then we could ask her and then she would go back to like her her boss and like confirm it and stuff like that. But she was really helpful for us to know, like if we're on the right track, and stuff like that.


Jade  11:08

Yeah, I thought I thought that element of it was really good. I kept on, you know, I think with my team, it was always that thing of this is such a big experience. And unfortunately, it was a bit of a breakdown within our team. But I was just like, I want these ladies to really throw themselves into it to get this experience. I was kinda like the aunty, of the group. I was just like, like, this is so cool. Like, I remember talking to my friends about it and saying, you know, this is amazing that we're doing something we're doing it we've linkedIn a global company like, This is amazing. But I thought it was it was a good place. To kind of place us I do a lot of Yeah, I do a lot of live briefs on my course. Okay, so that was something that I was familiar with. Yes. but nothing to that skill. So even for me, I was a bit, you know, starstruck so to speak like, wow, LinkedIn, this is cool. But I felt like for the people on the course, I felt like it was even more important to have that real life industry experience as well to see how fast paced things can possibly be. working within a team dynamic it was, I just feel like any kind of hands on experience is always important, because you can always learn by theory. Absolutely. by actually doing it, you can learn so much more. Yes.


Debra Chosen  12:33

whole different thing. Yeah, definitely. I love that you mentioned team the dreaded word - group work, we're going to bring that up now. No, I think one of the things, when we think about the world of work, and also our development as people, it's really important that we learn how to work with different people from different walks of life, you know, different disciplines, because when we do that expands our own knowledge and our own understanding, right. So you, of course, got the opportunity to work in teams and to work as groups. And what was interesting, I think, is that you're working with students from different disciplines. So in this scenario, you know, it's not necessarily working with your classmates, it's, you know, working with someone that studies something completely different to you. Was there anything and I imagined there was, if it wasn't anything eye opening in about that process. For example, maybe did you learn different how to adapt to different ways of working? Or did you notice maybe you had different approaches to the brief? And what would you say really was the was the learning point from working as a group,


Davinia  13:30

I think a group work you have to be like patient understanding, because the group work have done before, like, for example, in sixth form, I'm very, I'd like to say, sometimes I can be a bit controlling, in the sense that I need to know that I'm going to get my good grade, and it's not going to reflect badly on myself. So it's just allowing patience and having an understanding of everyone else and recognizing everyone's skills and allowing them to do things in their own way. And not like over analyzing everything all the time. So I think that was what I learnt. But I really liked my group. We really like flowed gelled well together. I think sometimes because it was like online, it was a bit hard like communicating with like WhatsApp. It's so long, it's so jaded. But yeah, we did try and find ways around that. But yeah, I think it was really valuable for me, because I haven't done group work since first year. And then then other time after that was like in sixth form, like high school days. So yeah, it was like it was a new experience for me to like, relearn, and like learn how to communicate with others and like, also communicate my ideas clearly as well.


Debra Chosen  14:42

That's powerful. How about yourself, what did you learn or what did you take away from working as a group?


Pearl  14:50

I'm similar to what Davinia was saying. But I'm just trying to be patient and make sure that everyone gets their ideas, heard and stuff because sometimes, if you're in a group and say someone louder than another person, then Like, not everyone gets heard. But yeah, I was fortunate I had a really great group and that we all like, listen to each other and like, just just made it work. And I feel like we gelled we had some difficulties at the beginning. But like throughout the programme, we were able to like find our stride and like really gel


Jade  15:17

because I was in her team No, I mean, for myself, it was more self reflection, because that kind of setup I'm used to, like I said, for my course. But what was highlighted for me was, from year one to year three, or starting off this course, I lie in the background, I've always been able to be in the background and just disappear. And this program overall, it's just like, No, you are here, you need to be loud about it. unapologetic. So in the team settings, I tend to have that same favor. I want to you know, stay in the background. And when I'm seeing things falling apart, I'm just like, at the beginning, I was like you need to speak up Jade, you need to say something. So I was able to do that. And, you know, just try to you know, remind everyone, look, we're here. We applied to be here, the Tedious form. Let's, let's let's make the the the most of it, basically. Yeah. And it worked.


Debra Chosen  16:20

What I find interesting is is you mentioned that kind of typically, I guess growing up and things like that you were used to fade into the background and, you know, play in that role. But then also, interestingly, you said in your own words earlier, you were kind of like the aunty of the group that somewhat took control and was able to lead people Did that surprise you in yourself that you had that ability to take on leadership in that way?


Jade  16:40

Absolutely. First, first two years of, of university, I dealt with imposter syndrome, I don't even know existed, actually, to be quite frank, I think because I had a life prior to that, that I made very comfortable for myself, and I made it work. So I was never uncomfortable. I was never doing anything that was not within my reach. I was always very capable to do the things that I needed to do. And then when I came to university, I found that there was a lot of social groups that I didn't fit in, whether it's because of you know, where they're from, whether it's like, you know, geographically or wherever it's like a language thing. Yes. So, once I was on this course, I was just like, oh, okay, I feel a bit more comfortable. And again, they speak so much life into you about, you know, building up your confidence. And this is what a good leader looks like. And, you know, there's a difference between being a manager and a leader, and so on, so forth. And I have, I do have great ideas, but I just be like, Oh, I'd rather the person just say something. as confident as I am. I like to just be quiet. I like I like people to just speak first. I don't. I don't know, I feel like through learn, like personal journey. I feel. I know that not everyone wants to be helped. And that's okay. So sometimes I'd rather not just say anything, or, or at least wait until a person says Jade, what do you think? And I'm like, Oh, you want to know what I think? Okay, this is what I think. But this course definitely helped me get that out for the purpose of achieving an end goal, you know, is that this is what we've got, we've got a deliverable, how do we approach it, but that's dealing with briefs is something that I do so I found out Hold on, I can be really useful here. You know,


Debra Chosen  18:33

I really appreciate that you mentioned, you know, your comfort zone, right, and also imposter syndrome. And I think it's interesting how the two can oftentimes be connected that sometimes when we experience impostor syndrome, it's purely because we're operating outside of our comfort zone, we have dared to step outside of our norms, whether that's the people we hang out with, you know, people that study the same things with us have the same walk of life as us, whatever that might be. And so, it firstly, just a huge well done to you all for navigating something that is outside of your comfort zone. And the evidence of how much you've grown from that process is in your answers right now. And we've got more to come as well to talk about that. But I think that's really key that you mentioned that. So I'm glad to hear you've had that kind of experience Jade. That's very powerful. So at this point, we are going into presentations. Okay, so another kind of curse words for uni students, I think. So there's when you're doing your online mock presentation, so Would anyone like to tell me really briefly what what does that process look like? And and again, how did you find that process? And in putting together those presentations? 


Pearl  19:37

Well, I'm normally a person that actually hits presentations. And then well, I guess, yeah, we're always pretty well prepared. In terms of like, we knew what the slides were we know we were saying


Jade  19:47

it was very useful, because we had a few sessions where we was given some feed forward. I don't know I think through the process I felt like it was so hard to get it right. Especially on the online sessions. But we took on board, everything that we was told, and we, you know, we were able to apply it. In the end, which just made it strong. Like we literally had like three different versions of the presentation. Was that we need to change that. You're not consistent with that. Yeah. But it was useful. And it worked. So


Debra Chosen  20:27

yeah, I love that you've referred to as feed forward, is that correct? Yeah. Okay. We don't have feedback.


Davinia  20:32

No it's feed forward, it's because it's more of like a positive thing is not saying what you done negatively. It's how you can improve later on.


Debra Chosen  20:40

So how did you find responding to the feed forward? Because obviously, typically speaking, we will have different responses to when we receive feedback, right? Some of us sometimes it can be quite damaging, it can be hard like to process that. What do you mean, I wasn't perfect? How did you find processing the feed forward? And what was that experience like for you, as a team, and also individually?


Jade  21:01

I felt exactly what you said at first, I can't remember who the lady was, forgive me. But there was one lady and she was just like, you're not consistent with this, you know, you need to be specific. Be like, Oh, she had she had spoken about before. It was like you lot were strong. We came and she was like no. isn't that bad? I again, like I said he was able to adapt and take on board everything that we was told, and you know, make the right changes.


Debra Chosen  21:34

That's good. And then part of growth. And exactly, yeah, adulthood, I guess, is being able to take on the feed forward.


Davinia  21:43

I always have to think before I say it, because I always like, say feedback. But yeah, the feed forward was good, because I made sure to take on because sometimes when they're speaking, I actually can't remember what they're saying. So I always just had to take notes and write it down. But I made sure that like in our group chats, we would kind of like remind ourselves what they said and try and include it again within the slides. But I think it was really helpful because it wasn't, I don't think it was like negative was like constructive, like criticism, I guess and what? And I think it applied to every group, because there were some things that they were saying that, like every group had to say, like introducing your names, like most of us, like forgot to say our names, and just things like that. But yeah, it was really helpful.


Debra Chosen  22:28

Yeah. How did you find the feed forward?


Pearl  22:30

Um, yeah, I personally, I first enough feedback, because they're always always it's beneficial, and makes you think about things that you may not have necessarily thought about before. Yes, some of the feedback was definitely interesting, as Jade was saying, but it was also very helpful, because they were like, oh, you should introduce yourselves and like, say who the next person is, because it helps to, like give it a flow, which is was something that we didn't do at the beginning. By the end, we knew and like, if you Yeah, just helps the whole presentation to flow


Debra Chosen  22:59

That's good, that's good. Another thing that I think people tend to find a little bit hard to So feedback, slash feed forward being one of them, and I think is networking as well. When we mentioned networking, sometimes people are like, Oh, my God, I have to talk to people I have to make people what on earth, of course, one of the things that you did do is you had a networking session, which will have pop ins for different current industry leaders to come and and talk to you guys. And also for you to have an opportunity to share a little bit more about yourselves and your own journeys. What was your biggest takeaway from some of those networking sessions?


Davinia  23:31

Because that was a hard one as well. It's because we had to write questions in preparation. I've always found that hard like answering, I mean, giving questions to people, because sometimes like, like, whatever you said, like I'm really intrigued, I'm engaged. But I don't want it to make it seem like I haven't taken in what you're saying. But sometimes I just go blind. So I really tried in this session to like, write down questions, and you wanted them as well. Yeah, it was really good. I had a really interesting conversation with Lizzie Reid. She's an illustrator. And we were talking about like, I suppose confident, self reflection, because I think her work is very holistic is about kind of like mental health and also artwork. So at the end of the session, like I stepped out of my comfort zone, and I messaged her on Instagram saying thank you and everything. And then we had a call one day, and yeah, we were just talking about art and like she was given some advice and things like that, that I needed help with. But yeah, that was like, what I took from that session as well doing is like you have the talk, but then the step afterwards, because then it will just kind of go to waste for me. I will just forget about it. I don't actually make contact with the person.


Debra Chosen  24:46

Yeah, they carefully handpick the people who spoke. I'm not just saying that because that was one of them. Yeah, they really did. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. How about yourself? What did you take away from the networking session Jade?


Jade  24:58

Again, I feel like it's Just having that real life experience and seeing someone within like a potential field that you might be interested in, and have an opportunity to ask them some real questions, you know, do you feel seen? Do you feel supported? You know, what does it mean to you? What does good look like? And I feel like it's, it's, it was great to have that access. And obviously, this program allowed us to have that access. So yeah, it was very much appreciated.


Debra Chosen  25:26

That's great. How about yourself? What did you take from the networking session?


Pearl  25:30

Um, the importance of asking the right question, because that's yeah, similar to Davinia. Whenever it comes to questions I was, I was find it hard to talk, like, what question is asked, even just come up with like, one question.


Debra Chosen  25:42

Okay, so looking back, okay, so we've kind of gone through the whole journey, what would you say was the most challenging moment of taking part within this program? We're gonna start with the heart, and then we're gonna go to the good. But what was the most challenging moment? Or maybe the most challenging aspect of taking part in this project?


Jade  26:03

I would say, finding the unity within the team, because these are individuals that you don't know you've never seen. I mean, we're all on a similar journey while studying at UAL. But well at different levels, different stages. So finding the unity, actually, before that the deadlines, trying to manage the deadlines. that was really hard. It was and it was, you feel guilty as well. Because obviously, if, depending on where you are, so in my team, that was me and one other that's on our third year, so we had like a dissertation to submit around the time and it was like, Okay, we need to prioritize this. But we've also are part of a team, you know, we've got things to do. So I feel like having that in and around the same time was very challenging.


Debra Chosen  26:52

Would you say it taught you a lot about balancing and, and prioritizing?


Jade  26:56

Absolutely. It was definitely forced at the forefront. And it challenged your own personal my personal mindset, because at times, I was like, well, they don't look like they care. So maybe I'm gonna do my work. But then you're like, No, I'm in this. I'm in this for a reason I literally applied Yes, to be here. I'm gonna put my effort. Yeah. So I fill out the balance, and then the unity because we don't know each other. Yeah. And we just, you know, grouped together. We didn't pick our groups that we know. Well, yeah, it was


Debra Chosen  27:29

a comfort zone. That's why. I pick you because you look like me, I pick you because I met you in the cafeteria, I pick you...


Jade  27:36

Exactly. So you know, and just just trying to find the time necessary to kind of nurture, yes, you know, the work, that's good,


Davinia  27:48

my experience was a bit different because I'm on my year out, so I had a bit more free time. That's why the understanding the patient had to come in because I'm like, obviously, my group, my group might not be able to put as much time in as I can, because they're some of them in their third year, doing like their final pieces and stuff. So I thought, okay, if I didn't see this is done, I'll just do the rest, and I'll give them they will have something more or less to do or something like that. So that's where, I guess the understanding part came in. But also some of you like touching about, like, kind of disappearing into the background. But I think for me, one thing that was challenging was to like speak first to you like you know, when you're online and they ask the question everyone's like like, Yes, I tried to like be the first person time sometimes to speak and it's sometimes hard maybe I'm talking too much but I tried to ignore that because usually I'm like, again like when you your name is said that's when you speak or I don't know when you're like everyone's spoken and you just add on something. So yeah, I did try and speak first. 


Debra Chosen  28:55

That's good, that's good, and I remember, oh my gosh she's very confident


Davinia  29:02

That was me trying


Debra Chosen  29:04

Fake it till you make it. love it. Pearl what was most challenging for you taking part in this project?


Pearl  29:09

I think going is the presentation thing just because like I knew we had a really strong team he had a really strong idea, but then like you can have all of that but then being able to articulate it fully and like get that across so that they can see all the hard work hard work that you put in and just like to get that across Yeah, it was definitely a challenge because like yeah, I get in my head a lot and then I start stuttering I've definitely done it today on multiple occasions. And


Debra Chosen  29:37

yeah, but knowing that you overcame that though it's really amazing Yeah, it's really really amazing so huge well done to you Pearl. Okay, so let's talk about rewarding moments. Okay, and maybe what was what was most enjoyable about this process? What would you say was the most rewarding moment or most rewarding aspect of taking part in this project? It can be something that you did personally it could be something to achieved as a team


Davinia  30:00

Because I do illustration and visual media. I think this was kind of outside of it in a way. Like, obviously there was like transferable skills, I guess, with leadership, but it really felt like completely different to my course and what I've done before, so I think, yeah, the learning aspect. And also I feel like I haven't learned a long time after every session, like my brain was just hurting, like, in a good way. Yeah. Because I've got like, yeah, I was acting was getting on this like information and like self reflecting on like different things. I'm just leaving, like leaving the session thinking, Oh, maybe I need to do that. Or maybe I'm not okay in that area, or just something like that. So I think that's what it was, it was just a really good learning experience. For me.


Debra Chosen  30:45

That's great. That's great. Jade, What was most rewarding about taking part in the project,


Jade  30:51

one of my highlights was actually the day of the presentation. Because up until that point it kind of felt like so much in the air. And when we came together, we was in CSM in the library. And we had like printed a tote bag. The stickers because we had everything was speaking online. Okay, so seeing it in person being together in person, and, you know, we all agreed to wear purple to represent our brand. It was just really nice. And then we we got to hope and glory. And our mentor, Helmi, she had some flowers and purple flowers for us. And I was like, Oh, this is this is real. Together. Yeah. I felt like that was definitely rewarding in that sense, you know, seeing it come to life.


Debra Chosen  31:35

That's great. And what was most rewarding for you taking part in this process?


Pearl  31:39

I think I think the whole the whole process was great, because it definitely took us on a journey in terms of like meeting people for the first time. And then by the end, you feel like you're friends like you just you want to. I mean, yeah, like you, you be creating that bond.


Debra Chosen  31:52

Okay, so if you could go back, this is sort of you of course, if you could go back, and you could do this once more. What would you do differently, if anything? Or would you have the exact same experience? Would you do anything differently? 


Jade  32:04

Me personally? No.


Debra Chosen  32:06

Why is that?


Jade  32:08

Because I felt like I learned so much about myself through the process that I did have, you know, so I learned so much about myself. I was able to see myself more in a leadership position than the background. I'm more confident about my own ideas. I'm able to balance things and meet deadlines. Yep, exactly. And just overall, I just, it was such a confidence booster. And very insightful. That I don't feel like I would have done anything different.


Debra Chosen  32:43

That's amazing. How about everyone else? Do you feel the same? Would we do anything differently? Same experience.


Pearl  32:50

Same? Yeah, yeah.


Davinia  32:52

 Yeah, I don't think I would change anything. Maybe go back and take more notes. Yeah, it was really good though.


Debra Chosen  33:02

Okay. Looking back at the process as well. Was there anything that you discovered about yourself in the process? Or looking back today? Yeah. What would you say that you discovered about yourself,


Davinia  33:14

that maybe I can be a leader, let me say that more confidently, I can be a leader! Also, because unfortunately, for me, like when they were doing the final presentation in real life, I caught COVID in that week. So I couldn't be there in person. But like, we managed to work something out. So I was still able to present my views that I have my face, which is on the screen was just so yeah, it was like I guess having determination and not giving up because I easily could have just been like, Oh, forget it. Like whatever, you guys pick the slides. And they even like had backups. I recorded my slides, just in case, the Zoom call didn't go well or something like that. So I was like, I've put in all this time and effort. I'm not going to just bail out like so easily like that. Yeah. So Yeah.


Debra Chosen  34:07

That's great. And yourself. What did you discover by yourself in this process?


Jade  34:13

Well, in addition to what I've already said, finding my voice. Summarize it. Yeah, finding my voice, fears, being comfortable in my own skin and knowing that I deserve to be here.


Debra Chosen  34:25

That's great. That's great. Pearl, what did you discover about yourself in the process,


Pearl  34:30

just to have I guess, more belief in myself and know that you can basically do anything that you put your mind to, and that we made it to the final presentation. I didn't stutter as much actually managed to slow down.


Debra Chosen  34:43

Love that for you. Well done. That's great. Okay, so for those that may be listening right now, there might be a few people listening and thinking about applying to the next live brief project, right. They're thinking okay, wow, these girls are talking about confidence and how much they've grown and how to balance prioritize finding my voice, all these amazing things. But some of these people may be listening and thinking, but can I do it? Do I have the ability? Am I good enough? Am I going to be able to balance it? What would you say to those that are listed right now and thinking about taking part?


Jade  35:14

Do it apply. Literally the amount of support that you receive, especially from like Sat and Charline is, is beyond measures, like it's just you can't put it into words, they are so supportive, they're so understanding, nothing is ever too much. Like literally, I'm not even exaggerating. I've had my own, you know, things that I've had to deal with outside of it. And they've always been there, they've always been available. And like I said, they've never made you feel like, oh, it's not achievable, or it can't be done. So, you know, even if you feel like yourself, you can't necessarily do it. You have the support. You have Jannett, you have your team, you know, you have everyone else in the class, they're going through the same process as you. It will be done. And they will do it together. You will be able to do it together. Yes. You're not on your own. 


Debra Chosen  36:00

Yeah, yeah. love that. Powerful.


Davinia  36:03

Yeah, definitely. But I would say, yeah, just do it. This thought and also, yeah, just don't hold yourself back. Because obviously, there's sometimes there's people in your way and obstacles, whatever. But I think I learned that my biggest obstacle was myself sometimes. So I think if you like get that feeling in your gut, or that voice in your head, just kind of like push it down and just go for it. Because the worst, there's not really much. There's nothing really bad that's gonna happen if you apply if you don't get it, then you don't get it. But then if you get it, then you can work through the next stage of kind of overcoming that anxiety or fear, whatever it is kind of like stopping you from doing it. And again, like you were saying, Charline and Sat are here, and the understanding and they're there to support you through all of it being good.


Debra Chosen  36:46

How about yourself?


Pearl  36:48

Um, yeah, just just do it anyway, you won't, you won't be sorry. Yeah, go in with an open mind. And just to take taken all the information that you that you have to give because it's a really informative program so much to learn, you make bonds with your team and all things. It's really worthwhile.


Debra Chosen  37:04

Great. So I hope the person listening knows. Just do it! Amazing. Well, thank you all for joining us for this podcast. For those listening. You've been listening to the UAL Creative Shift podcast with Davinia, Pearl, Jade and myself Debora Chosen  to find out more visit Until next time, we'll see you soon.